Mora File - Shamanic Divination in Practice™

In this episode of the Way of the Shaman podcast, host Kerri Husman speaks with Mora File about her journey into shamanic divination and healing practices. Mora shares her personal experiences with grief and loss, the ethical foundations of shamanism, and the transformative power of shamanic practices. The conversation explores the importance of connecting with indigenous traditions, the art of shamanic divination, and the everyday applications of these teachings in life. Mora emphasizes the significance of community support and the role of helping spirits in the healing process.

Guest: Mora File, RMT
Guest's bio: https://www.shamanism.org/faculty/mora-file/
Guest's website: https://www.theshamansmirror.com/

Host: Kerri Husman, MD
Bio: https://www.shamanism.org/faculty/kerri-husman/
Website: https://www.mammothhills.com/services/courses-in-core-shamanism/

Workshop: Shamanic Divination in Practice™
https://www.shamanism.org/workshops/shamanic-divination-in-practice/

Learn more about shamanism and shamanic workshops by visiting the website of the Foundation for Shamanic Studies: https://www.shamanism.org

Transcript

Introduction to Shamanic Divination

Speaker 0:07

You are listening to the Way of the Shaman Podcast with your host, Kerri Husman. The content shared in the Way of the Shaman Podcast is for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional or therapeutic advice. The views expressed by the host and interviewees reflect their personal experiences and opinions. Please consult with an appropriate licensed professional if you have any medical, psychological, or legal concerns.

Kerri 0:38

Hello, and welcome to the Way of the Shaman podcast. I'm your host Kerri Husman, and today we have More File joining us from Canada to learn more about shamanic divination and practice and her story with her regard to learning about shamanic traditions and how shamanism found her. Welcome, Mora. Thank you. Happy to be here. So glad to have you. And so tell us a little bit about how the work of Michael Harner found you.

Mora 1:11

Well, it um it came at a time of great loss and great sadness when my mother died. And as a healer for many, many years, I thought I had all the tools that I needed to process the grief and the and the loss. And um I did not. And I got really sick after my mother died. And um in the process of getting really sick, I just I put it out there. I need more tools. I need more tools in my toolkit. And a friend uh who I hadn't seen for a while had just come back from the two-week intensive. Oh uh, she was filled with just uh restored power and energy and focus, and I was like, okay, whatever you have just done is what I need to do. And so that was in December, and uh in January was was the first training of the way of the shaman, and um I took that training and and really never looked back. It just it it really launched me into where we are now.

Kerri 2:17

Wow. So even with that first workshop, you could feel some restoring of your own power from the loss and grief.

Mora 2:24

Yeah, it was a very, very powerful session. And you know, I think for for many who are called to this work, usually there's something that um that that has ignited within them that that calls to them, I need I need something more. And so they're ready, you know, people are ready when they come to this work, and um, that's the beauty and the power of how quickly this work can be integrated into you know individuals' healing process, yeah.

Personal Journey and Healing through Shamanism

Kerri 2:57

So, how has your training in other health disciplines, you're a registered massage therapist, you have other healing tradition trainings, how has shamanism influenced that practice over the years?

Mora 3:12

Well, it's you know, these are um all the all the tools that we have in our toolbox. There are so many wonderful practices out there uh for us to be learning. And for me, when I came to shamanism, the core shamanic practices really created a a beautiful framework and a container for this compassionate uh work of the helping spirits. And it just uh has really helped to heal and open my heart in ways that uh are just very deeply profound and um and experiential. You you have to go through this process as a as an independent kind of practitioner to understand how it touches and works with not just your heart, but your spirit. Your spirit is healing on on levels and in ways that um again, sometimes words cannot describe what that is, but it's very, very powerful. So, yeah, it's it's it's expanded. It's expanded how I can communicate with others about um the importance of this work for spiritual healing.

Kerri 4:17

So yeah. And so when you think about the trainings and disciplines that you'd already had before shamanism found you, what do you think is different as far as the ethics of core shamanism and how that might influence one's decisions about going down this path?

Mora 4:39

Well, the beautiful, you know, way that that Michael Harner has really honored this practice is that it is a disciplined practice and it has very clear ethical boundaries, and we don't do any work without permission. And so we can have all kinds of insights and understanding, but if a person is not ready for the work, we honor that, right? And hold space. And so um I have I have uh a very deep respect for the work because of this discipline practice and and ethical and permission-based kind of way that this work is done.

Kerri 5:16

Yes, I I couldn't agree more that that the ethical foundation of this work is so powerful and sometimes not what a client wants. They want you to fix someone else or to get that person to leave me alone or to get my boss out of my hair, and and we are not working outside at all of the of the spirit of the individual who has consented to care. And so I really deeply appreciate that, and even if it's not the popular answer sometimes.

Mora 5:51

Yes, yes, we're yeah, people want to be fixed, and we're we're trying to help educate people that that maybe they're not broken in the way that they think, right? And and that the power is about empowering them to take back what has been taken from them. So yeah.

Miraculous Healing Stories

Kerri 6:10

Yeah, building that resilience, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. So can you talk a little bit about a shamanic miracle? Something that happens that you've experienced, you've seen, or been a part of that has been a miracle healing story.

Mora 6:25

Mm-hmm. Well, when I first began this work, um, because of of how sick I was with the grief and loss of my mother, um, I had um I had pneumonia, um, you know, taking all kinds of medications, and and uh I think it was maybe the third workshop where we were doing uh extraction healing. And um it really felt like something was energetically lifted off of my chest and really feeling like a banker safe, right? A banker's safe stores stores all of the sacred things that you know you store away. And um as it was lifted off, it's like that door opened and and all of the important papers, all of the memories that I was holding on to just kind of went out and were scattered to the wind. And I remember taking a deep breath and thinking, oh, I I don't have I don't have to carry those stories anymore. I don't have to carry this energy of grief and loss and sadness to this level. And so that was uh that was a very profound healing for me and really brought this um deepening trust in how the helping spirits can show up and meet us exactly where we are on our journey and and support us if we're open to you know allowing for their work to come through. So that was a very that was one of the very profound experiences for me on my healing journey in the beginning.

Kerri 8:00

Wow. So you know I'm sure you've seen some of those images that people will use to describe grief and how that you have this container and the grief is very large inside of that container, and then over time the container is able to hold that grief with more space, with more par space to breathe, so to speak. So when you when you physically felt this this uh safe open up and and the the weight of this safe being released, do you feel like that was just this beautiful metaphor for you that was being offered by the helping spirits to show how you could hold that grief differently?

Mora 8:41

Absolutely. Wow, absolutely. And then as you know, as time goes on and you take more classes and we got into soul retrieval, and then and then looking at the aspect of self that that was holding that grief and loss, that little one who didn't want to lose her mother, right? Right. We all we all have these little ones inside of us that are are holding on for dear life sometimes, it feels like. And so when something is taken away from us, um, you know, bringing those parts of us back into wholeness uh and into that container that can, you know, hold that grief and hold hold what is now a real truth, right? That that we have power, we don't need to feel like we've been well, we have been cracked open, right? I felt like my heart had been cracked open. And in the process of of being brokenhearted, something else can come in because a new a new energy, a new power comes into play here, and we're ready to grow in ways that we maybe were not thinking prior that we could grow, right?

Kerri 9:49

So you have a unique relationship with the Kanienʼkehá꞉ka people, otherwise known as Mohawk. Could you tell us a little bit about your story and your story with your connection?

Mora 10:02

Yeah. So um I live just north of the Mohawk of the Bay of Quintes here, and my stepmother is Mohawk from the Bay of Quinte. And um so we have um, you know, these beautiful um influences of of these indigenous cultures that are around us. And uh, you know, my stepmother is always asking, um, oh, are you practicing these Mohawk traditions? And I'm like, no, I don't, I don't really know what your traditions are unless you share them with me. And so um, you know, honoring that that she respects the work that I'm doing with this core shamanic practice and and honoring that it is a practice that is, you know, as Michael talks about, universal or near universal in its um implementation and knowledge. And so um, yeah, it's a you know, there are so many beautiful practices that are out there. And uh certainly for me, I come from a European background, and the Celtic uh traditions are part of my traditions, and the Nordic is part of my tradition. And so, again, as a as a deepening understanding of of who we are as a people who have come from specific areas, you know, this this work is about connecting and reconnecting to the spirits in in this natural world. We are all on one earth, right? And and so as we have different understandings of of ways that we can connect um into this realm that is our world and how we can bring healing and how we can restore the balance is important for all of us to be taking on um very seriously right now, especially in the world that we are in.

Connecting with Indigenous Traditions

Kerri 11:51

So well, thank you for sharing that. I am I am curious, has your experience with core shamanism helped you connect more with your own Celtic or Norse ancestry?

Mora 12:04

Yes, absolutely. And you know, the the beauty of of some of these online trainings is that people can come from around the world. So there's lots of people who are coming from Ireland and taking these courses and um from other parts of Europe as well, and even even from the Mohawk territory, there are students who are are reconnecting with what is the spiritual teachings and the reconnecting to um, you know, this land-based kind of learning. And so many of them have gone through the core shamanism and then come back to their own cultural uh teachings and and stepped into that and and are now re-reconnecting and learning. So that's that is a beautiful part of um, yeah, just awakening, that we're all awakening again, right?

The Art of Shamanic Divination

Kerri 12:54

Right, which is so important. And so let's talk a little bit about if if you're okay with this, about so obviously when students take the shamanic journey or the way of the shaman, one of the critical things they're learning is how to journey, how to make it to the compassionate realms, the upper world, the lower world, and meet with those compassionate helping spirits in those locations. But the next thing that's so critical after learning how to journey is to learn how to communicate, to connect, to ask the questions. And this class, shamanic divination in practice, is really all about that. Learning how to ask the questions. So can you talk a little bit about what it's like helping students build those shamanic divination skills?

Mora 13:45

Yeah, so you know, learning learning the art of the question, right, is is is definitely a key, and and helping helping students to understand the process of focusing on what is your real intention around the question that you're asking. And so, you know, peeling back the layers and getting underneath what is um is coming up for people really does help them to um see what's in the heart, what's coming from the heart, and not just always our our mind, right? And and so this work is the work of the heart. And so helping to use the different tools and the different methodologies that we have to um journey to our helping spirits in the upper or lower worlds, or um, you know, as we deepen in our practice, learning how to enter into this middle world non-ordinary reality is also a big part of um, you know, bringing this work into our daily lives and and making this become a part of who we are. So it's not just a practice that I do certain hours of the day, it's it's it's a it's a living practice. And so uh the divination is such a key tool to understanding how our helping spirits are are wanting to communicate with us, and that different helping spirits communicate in different ways. And so, as we are learning their language, as we are learning their metaphors, as we are uh listening and feeling and and sensing with all of our senses, right? So some of us are very visual and we'll see things, some of us are are feeling, and so we feel things more, some of us hear, you know, the how how information is coming through. And so as we are deepening in this uh awakening practice, we are really opening to all of our sensory perceptions and um and how we how we are connecting with our helping spirits and the ways that they want to um share information with us, and uh it is unique and different with each one of those uh spirits. So that's the beauty of of how the divination uh tools begin to work for us.

Transformative Experiences in Divination

Kerri 16:04

Absolutely, where some helping spirits will communicate entirely with symbols, and others will communicate with words in a language that you understand, and others will just give you an image that that tells you the story, tells you the message. So it is wonderful that over time a student who is maybe especially able to know or to smell or to hear that the helping spirits that utilize those techniques they will connect with. Maybe not the first journey, right? So continuing to build those relationships, they will get to a place where they will easily and quickly and efficiently be able to get the answers they need to do the work to provide assistance with a daily problem or daily task, or when they're working with a client. So it's really all about changing your relationship with your day all day long. It's not just when you're in with a client. It's a beautiful thing. So could you tell us about any experiences with shamanic divination skills, just the divination that may have resulted in an outcome that was transformative or even a miracle for yourself or for a client?

Mora 17:26

Yes, I I you know early on in my practice, I had um I had the opportunity to uh work with a client who had had a heart attack. And she ended up in the hospital, had open heart surgery, came out of the surgery, everything was good, and then the next day she got a serious infection. And so now she was on life support. And um a family member called and said, Please, can you can you come? Can you come? And so I went and and um just you know gently touched her shoulder. There she was in the ER and had a nurse at the end of her bed, and she was literally hooked up to everything that that could keep her life going. And um and I just connected, I just connected with her spirit and and said, Hey, I I see you. And uh where I saw her was sitting on a mountaintop, kind of looking down into the valley and and seeing all of the people that were part of her life and not knowing what to do. And I sat down beside her and um I said, Hey, you know, you've got this infection, that's why you're here. And she goes, Oh, I I wondered what was going on. And I said, You you you have a choice that you need to make, and you can you can stay, and people will be here to help you, and if you choose to go, people will be here to support you, and it's it's okay, it's okay. And and here's a person who was in a total coma state, and she turned her head ever so slightly and opened her eyes ever so slightly, and I just looked into her eyes and I just nodded, and I said, I'm here, I'm here to support you in whatever way. And she closed her eyes and she just turned her head slightly back, and and I just kind of passed her a little bit of power and said, you know, whatever you need, I'm here. And then after a time I left, and um this was already nine o'clock at night, so it was late. And um as the night progressed, she started to stabilize, and they were able to take her off of the respirator and and some of the other support systems. And the next morning her sister called me and said, I don't know what happened, but she's she's out of emergency and she's now in a room and wants to see you. And so I went and saw her that afternoon, and um, and she was sitting up in bed holding a hot pack to her heart, and uh and and and she saw me and she said, Oh, thank you, thank you for coming. And I said, It's good to see you. It's good to see you looking looking stronger. And she said, She said, You you saw me. You saw me on the mountaintop, didn't you? And I said, Yes, I saw you there. She said, You helped me. You helped me, you called me back, I didn't know what to do. And she started crying and said, I I I'm ready to do whatever I need to do to be here. And so um after she came out of the hospital, we did a few other healing sessions to just bring her power back and restore and so that was 13 years ago, and uh, you know, she made some lifestyle changes and her daughters are married, she's a grandmother now, and she's just living life from a very uh different perspective of gratitude and um service to others in a different kind of way. So that really that that just was so powerful, that session of of seeing how the helping spirits can show up for us when we um just come from that place of the heart and and allow, allow for something to come in, right?

Deciding if Shamanic Divination is Right for You

Kerri 21:23

Wow, what a touching example, and I'm so glad that she was comfortable with you being able to share this story because this story is the kind of story that students can really benefit from hearing that these miraculous outcomes really can happen with these basic skills, they don't have to be all the way through all the training to the very end for these miraculous capabilities to be present. Again, this is all because the helping spirits are working with you. Absolutely beautiful. So if a student is trying to decide whether or not shamanic. Divination in practice, the second workshop of the online series, the first workshop in the knowledge portion of the online series is right for them. How would you support them through that decision? If they're thinking about taking them but not quite sure.

Building Community and Support

Mora 22:17

Well, this is a key. This is a key that's going to unlock a whole deepening understanding of the work and the practice. So, as you had said, you know, in our first class, we're learning how to journey to the upper world and the lower world to meet our helping spirits. And then the way that we deepen in our connection and understanding about how they are here to work with us is what the divination practice is. And so, as we are learning how to connect with them, to ask questions on behalf of ourselves or on behalf of someone else. And so, you know, we we start to have an understanding about how we can help others, right? And that is is um a bigger part of this work is how can we be in service? And so uh learning these divinatory tools are essential for all of the work that is is going to come down through all of the other classes that we are doing, and so um yeah, just deepening in your understanding of this work is what each class brings. So um, yeah, divination is a key to the next steps.

Kerri 23:28

So, one of the things about divination is, as you know, cultivating your ability to ask that question, and certainly that's practiced extensively in the workshop and even afterward. Can you talk a little bit about how you support students after they've taken a course?

Mora 23:46

So, after all of the classes that I teach, I always have a review class, and so we get to practice in that review class what you've learned in the class and and really start to integrate because integration is a big part of this of this work. Integrating and learning how to trust yourself and um trust in these connections and deepening uh relationships, and so the practice becomes a very important part of the work. So uh we always have a review class, and then I do a drum circle once a month for those who are in that knowledge series uh to again connect with new students who are also practicing and learning and um meeting students who have who have had maybe deeper uh time with the practice and so seeing how it can unfold and and also just creating the community, right? Creating the community of support for this work and um and also knowing that the foundation is also providing community gatherings and meetings for people to come to and and be a part of something that is um that larger supportive community. So these are these are important ways, yeah, that we can connect.

Kerri 25:03

Yeah, absolutely. I'm so glad that you offer these. And many faculty members do, and there are f people who are not faculty members that also offer drum circles, but you're offering a circle where people are practicing some skills as well. And that review course afterward that you offer is so brilliant and so useful. So I'm thankful for everyone who is able to take a course with you and experience that. Thank you.

Supporting Students Concerns about Divination

Mora 25:29

Yeah, yeah, it's important. It's important.

Kerri 25:33

So a different thing about divination I'd like to ask is how do you assist or support potential students or students in the workshop who are a little bit concerned about divination or even afraid due to their experience or exposures with religion or magic?

Mora 25:53

Well, we know that this is not a religion and this is not a magical practice. This is um a very uh deeply independent spiritual understanding that um the helping spirits are going to show up for you if you show up and and hold an intention and are present for them. And so as we are uh learning these these tools and ways of communicating and and ways of um understanding that uh if everything is alive and has a spirit and we can learn from all of what is here for us to learn from, that it is not um it is not a power over you. And perhaps that's the biggest difference is is that it is um you being empowered by your experiences, and these are very personal to you, and so um just reinforcing those um understandings and and ways of perceiving that that they have control over that aspect of of the learning.

Kerri 27:00

And so a piece of that though is also the conscious mind trying to get in the way, right? You know, uh telling you it's not real, you've made it up, um, coming in with an with a desired outcome, right? So all of those things can get in the way of the divination work. Do you have any tips or ideas for someone who's struggling with putting that conscious mind aside as a silent witness and just being open to the answers, which I know sounds so easy to do, but can be very hard, especially if we are, you know, doing a divinatory journey for someone we really care about. Let's say the client has a um has been told they may have cancer, they've had a biopsy, they're waiting for the results, and they're looking to you for next steps in their spiritual healing journey, and you've you really want to help, but you also care so deeply that putting that conscious mind sometimes can be harder to set aside. How do you guide people when they're working through that?

Practical Applications of Shamanic Skills

Mora 28:10

Well, the you know, the ego is a very powerful uh part of who we are, and it needs to have a role. And so, you know, if we can invite the the ego to be the observer, and so I I suggest to people that you know if you can put your ego in the passenger seat and you can let your helping spirits be, you know, guiding you on this journey, um, and you can be observing what's happening, and so uh sometimes that's a good way of inviting that connection in. Uh, the other way I might say is um, you know, we're doing a beautiful dance. And so if you were ever a ballroom dancer, there is one who leads and one who follows, and we are following the lead of you know the helping spirits who are um you know dancing us through these experiences and sharing with us um how we are perceiving and interpreting these experiences. And so um, you know, Michael talks a lot about becoming the hollow bone. I talk a lot to the students about becoming the hollow bone. And so when you are feeling like you are coming up with the answer, that is not you being the hollow bone. And so you need to just keep giving that part of your ego the role of sitting in the passenger seat and reminding, reminding that part of yourself that um it it can be the observer and and learn from observing. And so it's a practice, it takes time. People don't like to let go of control, they like to be in control, and this is this is about surrendering control to a deeply compassionate, energetic spirit helper. And so um, you know, people do have trust issues, and so this is a process of building trust that um we will be guided in exactly the ways we need to be guided now, in this moment, and so to just pay attention to that and um with lightness, come with curiosity, right? I tell them to come with a childlike mind and and and let there be, you know, not such a serious kind of intention for uh for the work, but just an allowing and and at times a surrendering. You really, you know, in my early days as someone who needed to be in the driver's seat, sometimes we get these illnesses so that we have no no energy to to fight, you know. So the surrendering, when I really let myself surrender into this process and allowed for these tools of divination to come through, information would come in ways that I could not have ever imagined. And so this is the other beautiful part is that our helping spirits have such a big perspective on whatever the issue is, that they can come at it from ways that we could never have imagined.

Learning from the Rock

Kerri 31:20

Wow. Beautifully stated, Mora. Thank you so much for describing that, and I do wholeheartedly agree that being able to get to that place. So what's so fun and so interesting is, you know, as as everyone learns, you know, when you're starting that journey, your imagination is the beginning of that journey, and then things start to happen that you would have never expected. And that same thing happens with divinatory work, that answers come up that are presented to you in such a way that your your your imagination really couldn't have made up. So shifting gears a little bit, I'd like to talk a little bit about learning from the rock. That is one piece of that's new. And you know, the first workshop you're really going to these compassionate realms. But working with the rock is working here in the middle world. So what's inter what's interesting to me is this opens up students to the capacity to really grasp that everything is alive. Now, some people have had this knowing since they were born, and other people think, yeah, right, my pen is alive. What are you talking about? So, can you talk a little bit about what this opens up in students as far as the learning from the rock?

Mora 32:49

Well, you know, we can we can look at the energy and spirit of the rock as as a um a very powerful holding energy for the earth itself. And so, you know, some of the most important work that we can do requires us to also be really grounded, right? And so the rock provides an opportunity for us to ground ourselves and listen from a different place of stillness. I think this is also rock divination is such a beautiful practice because it really invites us to listen and go in and meet the spirit of the rock, which is a very usually quiet, dense energy of knowledge. It's been around a long time. It's a lot and experienced a lot. And so the spirit of of the rock can can bring in insights and understanding and answers to questions, again, in ways that are so unexpected, because it requires us to really slow down. Yes. Those of us who are you know caught in this you know high-speed world of of getting things done, um, you know, part of the shamanic teaching is also learning to slow down, and and in that process, we hear and feel and experience and see things through that shamanic experience because we're we're slowing down. So the rock divination is a is a beautiful um is a beautiful experience. And as you say, many of us, you know, from the time I was little, you know, rocks have been a fascination to me, and they've spoken to me, and I I pick up stones all the time. And and with my grandkids now also, you know, have taught them the experience and power of even just to carry a rock in your pocket that helps you to slow down and ground. Um, these are you know, these are important tools that we can give children in a time where you know so much technology has really impacted on them in ways that I I worry, right? I worry how this is going to impact. And so um, yes, I I my I have a grandson who just started grade nine, and he's very curious about all of these tools. And so I I found a rock for him that will help him stay grounded, and so he's been carrying it in his pocket, and he just reaches in and can feel it, and even just that connection, right, without doing any divinatory questions to that rock, it just is there as a support. And so, as we learn these tools of divination and ways of communicating and connecting, it may feel like your imagination is going wild, and how on earth could a rock be alive and have a spirit, but it its essence is so so powerful when we take the time to connect and slow down and see what what gifts they're there, right?

Next Steps in Shamanic Learning

Kerri 36:06

And I mean, there can be profound wisdom and even profound healing that comes from what the rock has to provide. So it is just like trees, just like um the building that you live in, they all have a spirit, and so really opening that up in this workshop, I think, is beautiful and essential for building moving on. And so that leads me to a question about if a student is taking this workshop with you or in their review course afterward, and they wonder what they should take next. What do you share?

Mora 36:44

So after after the divination class, um there is a deepening class in in the middle world training called worldview. And this understanding that you know we live in a world, and so how how can we deepen in our understanding and worldview of what's there that is trying to teach us about how to be in better relationship with the world around us, right? And so um I really do encourage students to take the worldview class to understand how to um just be in this middle world from a place of of seeing that there is possibility to do healing work here on many levels. And and all of the shamanic healing, the core shamanic healing work that we do in the healing series, happens in this middle world realm. And so you really do need to have an understanding of this middle world and how you can work with it in all of the different ways and the tools that are here and the connections that can be made. So it's a deepening practice, and I I would really encourage that next step.

Kerri 37:56

Oh, wonderful. And yes, realistically, you know, there are certainly folks who are drawn to this work and they're very interested in the healing work, and maybe not taking so seriously the knowledge series. And one of the things that I share is until you take these knowledge courses and really build the capacity to hold more power and understand the world around you, the healing work's gonna be a little more challenging for you, or possibly not even possible. So, this knowledge work is absolutely critical. So, I would wholeheartedly agree that Worldview is a phenomenal course, it is not offered in person, there's not an equivalent in person. And this course is really good at helping people grow those skills and grow some confidence and the knowledge of the protection that the helping spirits provide in the middle world when they're doing work in the middle world. So it's really helping build that. So absolutely wonderful.

Mora 38:55

And and you know, the other two that continue on that path, the personal transformation and the local and global change, you know, those are also so key as part of this understanding of how to bring shamanic knowledge into your life as opposed, you know, in the in the personal transformation and also into the world around you and how you can bring these teachings to you know local projects or you know, even a global kind of link into how how to help and support what's happening in our world right now.

Kerri 39:33

And I can assure you that that coursework and those steps were utilized in developing this podcast. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We use this work in our lives in so many different ways once you've built those skills up. So absolutely. So is there anything more that you would like to share with us, Moray, about this course, shamanic divination and practice, that you feel really helps people with their everyday life? Just you know, getting their kids ready for school, going to work, everyday life, not about healing, you know, anything about it that you feel that they could actually use as soon as they've taken the course for themselves.

Mora 40:21

Well, just to um, you know, just to have this understanding that that um you have you have these tools in these ways to to from the moment you wake up and look out the window and and decide how what's happening on the other side of the window is going to impact on your day. And so, you know, I think once you develop a shamanic understanding, a shamanic worldview, um, there is just this uh deeper understanding and deeper gratitude and and uh a playfulness, a deeper kindness, a deeper compassion, a deeper level of patience with understanding where others might be on their journey. And um, you know, I find myself that that, you know, when I'm when I'm really in a grounded place with my helping spirits, and I've been doing this work and connecting with them and getting answers to questions, that how I go out into the world is different. I'm just a much kinder, more patient, more compassionate person and reach out to others, whether that's holding a door open in the grocery store or just smiling and waving to somebody as they're walking down the street. And and people appreciate those interactions that we are all interconnected. And so the energy that we are bringing into the world does have an impact, it ripples out. And so if we want to counteract some of that negative energy that's going on in our world, we just need to raise that volume of our own inner power and inner knowing and inner compassion and kindness.

Kerri 42:04

Beautiful. Couldn't agree more. Well, thank you so much, Maury, for joining us today. I'm so appreciative of your time and your your perspective on how this course and really your how it's influenced you even as you've taught this course repeatedly over time.

Mora 42:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kerri 42:24

We'll be in touch soon.

Mora 42:25

Yeah, just it just keeps going deeper. So uh thank you, Kerri, for for taking the time to bring bring these teachings out in this way. It's a beautiful, it's a beautiful practice. So I hope people really feel that.

unknown 42:40

Yeah.

Kerri 42:40

Thanks so much. Have a great day.

Mora 42:42

All right.

Kerri 42:43

Take care. You too. Bye bye.